Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: Well, hello everyone, and welcome back to the Bottom Line Me podcast, where we like to dive into industry trends, practical tips, and conversations that can help you navigate the world of real estate and title insurance. I'm your host, Ann Allard.
Today we're diving into a topic that affects every one of us, and that topic is Conf.
Now, I'm not talking about the Instagram version or the fake it till you make it cliche, but the real research backed human kind of confidence.
Probably for most of us, a lot of what we think about or know about confidence is shaped based on our culture, some expectations, even biology.
Few books unpack conflict confidence more clearly than a book that Susan is here to share with us today, and that's called the Confidence Code. Written by Caddy K and Claire Shipman. Their work blends science, psychology, and some personal stories to help explore why confidence can sometimes feel intangible, especially for women, and how we can build it through action, risk taking, and letting go of perfectionism.
So with that in mind, I'm very excited to welcome Susan Stewart Lagana for this conversation.
Sue and I had an opportunity to meet at one of the ALTA conferences last year. We hit it off and we have loads of things in common, but confidence was one of the things that repeatedly came up in some of our conversations. So in addition to meeting her at the ALTA convention, Susan is the founder of her the Title Collective, an organization that makes a real impact for women in the industry.
And recently she led a webinar on the Confidence Code. So our timing couldn't be better.
So, Susan, with all that said, I am so excited to be able to have this conversation with you. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining me today.
[00:02:22] Speaker A: Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
Great.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: Well, I think before we dive into confidence, let's take a few minutes here and give you an opportunity to tell our audience a little bit about yourself, what inspired you to create her, and what the mission is behind that organization. So tell us a little bit about yourself.
[00:02:44] Speaker A: Absolutely. I love talking about her.
So I've been in the title industry for 25 years, going on my 25th year this year, and when I first started, I think we can all relate to the feeling of, you know, insecurity, imposter syndrome, all those things that us women tend to go through in our careers to before we really find our place.
And I, through all of that, wished I had had women that I could surround myself with to build and grow and mentor me along the way. I had some great men mentors don't get me wrong, but it's just a different conversation. It's just a different empowerment. And I've had many women's groups that I've been a part of throughout the years, and this one came about really almost by accident.
But it's designed with our mission and goals of.
I started spotlighting women and I felt like women in the industry do so much of the work and they work so hard and they often, too often, I think, stand in the backgrounds and stand in the shadows instead of being confident enough and saying, hey, I'm doing a great job, I'd like to do more, you know, but what does that look like? Instead? They're quiet. And so part of it is really getting the communication piece out there of what title insurance is and sharing the stories of so many women that like me, could have used more mentors, especially women mentors as they grew in this career. So our mission is to build an influential community of professional title women who lift one another through mentorship, collaboration and shared experiences. So we're dedicated to really helping just keep that positive momentum for women and going forward with what's your next step in your career and helping you gain the confidence and the skill and activity to getting there. So that's what we're all about. And I'm having fun with it. I'm having a lot of fun with it.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: Well, and I'm enjoying my participation whenever I can. I know you conduct monthly webinars. I love the magazine and I love the opportunity to just watch it all unfold. So it's an awesome, awesome undertaking. And so excited that you decided to take it on and run with it. So I know constantly is gaining traction everywhere.
[00:05:14] Speaker A: Yeah, well. And I was a professor for five years, part time professor in Colorado. And it was so funny because I was the youngest professor. I only have a master's degree. And I go to my first big meeting and all these people are so much older than me, PhDs, they know business inside and out. And it's the marketing department. And they introduced me as the, as the insurance gal. And I was like, oh, wait. And so then they start asking me all these insurance questions and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Let me explain to you what title is. And that was another big aha moment for me that I was like, well, if we're going to get it out, what title insurance really is, I think it's. We need to be doing the communicating, we need to be sharing the stories. And so that's another reason why. And how the magazine came about is to consistently showcase that because there's so many incredible stories we can share to really show people what we do in the title world.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: Well, and I absolutely, I love the magazine. And I also think that without even realizing it, perhaps it's inspiring the next generation of young women professionals to take a look and see where someone else came from and how their career evolved in this industry. Because it is a really well kept secret, this industry. Without a doubt. Yeah, yeah.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: Yes, very well. And you know the ironic thing too, and it's funny because, you know, I interview women all across the country and you can't necessarily always be in person like you and I right now, today, and the comments I kept getting from them. So I put together a questionnaire and they would fill out this questionnaire and it's a questionnaire that we would have if we were sitting, you know, face to face. And every time they'd come back to me with their answers, they would be like, wow, it really made me realize how much I've done. Like it, it was hard, it was hard for me to talk about myself and to get it, get the word out and, and it's true. It, that's part of the problem is we have a hard time, you know, really talking about ourselves and sharing our stories and it's so impactful and empowering to all the other women, you know, coming up in the industry.
[00:07:20] Speaker B: So what a great lead in to our topic, you know, no question. I think my first question to you, I know you, you recently hosted a webinar and I had the pleasure of being able to watch it. It was awesome. I've picked up the book. I loved the book.
I think I'll go, you know, I listened to it and now I'm going to go buy, buy the book because I got to go back and, you know, highlight. That's what I did.
[00:07:45] Speaker A: That's so funny. That's exactly what I did the first time too, as I listened to it and then I had to buy it. Yeah, yeah.
[00:07:51] Speaker B: So let me ask you, you know, what drew me to. It was the recommendation from you. But what drew you to take a look at that book? What caused you to want to look at it?
[00:08:01] Speaker A: Well, you know, I've been doing a lot of learning and research and you know, I didn't really expect her collective to just take off like I did. I wasn't planning to be a leader of this or planning it to be, you know what it is, and I'm excited about it. It just shows that so Many women feel they need that connection, you know, and that positive momentum from other women in their life. That it's not a competitiveness, it's. It's a. It's a conscious effort to help each other really get to your next level. And genuinely.
And so I was talking about it, and I actually met a woman at Ulta, one of the Ulta conferences. And last year, as we were formulating the webinar series and what we wanted it to look like, and we're very conscious about our brand reputation. And I'm a marketing gal, so I love really trying to dig into the marketing aspect of it and connect on an emotional level with women.
And so I was talking with a woman that is actually.
She's the president of Advocus Title Insurance Company, Jill Cadwell. And she mentioned she had just read listen to this book. And I was like, really interesting. Someone had told me to read this book. And. And so she said, you need to listen to it. It's actually very surprising. And I was like, okay. And so I'm always looking for referrals. We have a book club within her collective called Pages, and every month we recommend a new book. And so I'm always. I'm a reader and I'm a learner at heart, so I love getting new books and reading them. But then as I started to listen to it, I was like, oh, my goodness, this is actually going to help me. And so many of the things that I'm trying to develop as a leader, develop as a person, you know, that in my profession, all those things that it resonated so loudly to me that I. And it kind of connected with the mission of. What I've been trying to do as a leader for her, too, is bridging the gap between how we think of ourselves and the roles that we either are thrown into by fire, which often happens in Title. We all know that, um, or that we, you know, just. Just in how we adapt and take on those roles. But then our confidence that goes along with it. So it just connected so immediately. And I was like, that's. That's the message I want to have, is showcasing the women follow and be a part of First Collective. Because that's what we're here trying to teach you, help you, motivate you to do, is just keep that positive momentum in your story and your journey and Title.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: So when you were reading the book, did. Did you ever come across something that you read that you said, Ah, this is really speaking directly to me.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh, yes. How about you. Like, so many things.
So many things. Like as you listen to it and then. And then you read it. And I'm a highlighter, you know, Like, I love to sit and highlight the book and everything and go back to it. But the one part, there's this quote that they say kind of in the beginning, and it says, women have long believed that if we just work and don't cause any trouble, our natural talents and shine will shine through and be rewarded. And I thought, oh, my goodness, like, that is me from, you know, when I was a baby in title and just work harder. Just work harder. Just, you know, keep your head down and work harder. And I was like, but that's me. Holy cow.
I'm missing opportunities because I'm quiet or because I'm not being brave enough and try for that, you know, just to try to teach a class or try to do something outside of my box. Right.
So that was probably the first thing that really hit home for me. Wow.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good one. I think most of us can relate to that one at one time or another in our careers. But I know that the authors kind of argue that confidence is built through action rather than perfectionism. And I really loved that part of the book. So can you talk a little bit about that? How it, you know, how you applied it or what your takeaways were from that?
[00:12:14] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh, yes. I can totally relate to that as well. So I know many times in my earlier part of my career, I.
And they talk about how oftentimes. And they showcase a lot of studies about it too, to prove it. That big difference between men and women is men. If they don't know something, they'll pretend like they know it and they'll just go for it. Even if they somewhat don't feel confident enough, they'll go for it. Where women, we just don't even answer the question at all. Like, we just become paralyzed. And part of that is because we have that perfectionism.
Many of us, especially when we're. We have so many different roles and then we get into the career world, we have this perfectionism.
They call it. What do they call it? It's like a disease, almost the disease to please. Right. And because.
Right. And they just. Because we want everything to be so perfect and we don't want ever to look embarrassed or like we failed at something, so we just don't even act at all. And that's a big point to distinguish, is we go into paralysis mode.
[00:13:23] Speaker B: So, yeah, that part really spoke to Me as well. And, you know, it's not a criticism of, of men. It's that they're willing to, to do the. Act as if it's like we want to dot all the I's and cross the t's and be sure that we have all those answers or that we're confident and capable enough of accomplishing something or meeting an expectation. And men just have that natural confidence that I'll figure it out along the way, I guess.
[00:13:51] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Yeah. And they did some studies. So one of the studies that I point out in my classes, um, it's the University of Milan, and this teacher did a study on 3D images. And they took 500 students, men and women, and asked all these Questions about the 3D images and things like that. And he found that the women scored way lower. And he's like, why is that? But then when he went back, he found that the reason is because they didn't answer at all. And so he made them retake it. And, and they were just as. They, they. Their scores went way up and they were just as close to the same percentages as men. But it's just that we, for whatever reason, it's built in our anatomy, it's partially DNA based, cultural based, all those things. And they go into that in the book. But, you know, once that we can acknowledge that and know that that's happening, then maybe we can stop that, you know, behavior that we tend to have as well.
[00:14:51] Speaker B: Yeah, they put some terms that are above my pay grade on some of these things. I know, you know, they, they, they blend neuroscience and psychology in it to explain, you know, how we often underestimate our own abilities.
And I found that very interesting. And it's a part when I really feel I have to go back and reread. But was there anything in that research that jumped out at you or surprised you?
[00:15:16] Speaker A: You know, it, it didn't. It surprised me to some degree. But then when I think about myself and my journey, I never thought I'd be entitled for 25 years. Right. Like, I never even. Like, I always wanted to be a professor, and that was one of my life goals. And then when I was. I was like, oh, okay. And it's funny because I'll talk with people and they're like, oh, you're a professor? And it's like, yeah, because I don't protrude that confidence.
And I am always questioning myself that I can just imagine. And from all my experiences, especially with her, with meeting so many women and talking with so many Women that they feel like me, I'm not alone in that, you know, like I'm normal to some degree and feeling that way.
But I think it's once we can acknowledge that as women and realize, I think that's the big thing that I got to take away from this book is many of us do it. And once you realize that, you can stop yourself and be like, I don't need to do that anymore. And if I come across and I go and try it and I fail completely and fall flat on my face, well, I'll pick myself up and do it again. You know, like, what else are you going to do? So, yeah, I thought that was interesting.
[00:16:27] Speaker B: I think they coined it, you know, the confidence gap, you know, which I thought was pretty interesting, the idea that women often feel less confident, even as you pointed out that despite the fact that they're equal or either greater competent around something. But anything else you want to add to that? Because I found that really interesting. But I like that they named it.
[00:16:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And they also talked about how even more so in the last five, 10 years, women now are a big part of the workforce. Obviously more women are graduating college and higher degree levels as well.
And it's almost like we need, we need to do more and be more in order to have that confidence gap filled for us in some ways, which isn't. Isn't the case. It's what they're trying to showcase in the book is just take action, don't sit and overthink it. Don't be afraid to even try.
And so it's really the simple little things that we can just do in our daily life that will help us to showcase who we really are. And we don't have to do it in an arrogant way at all. It's just being authentic with who you are, you know, so that was big for me too. And realizing it's. It's little simple that really make a difference.
[00:17:48] Speaker B: Yeah, well, it's exactly. And it's. The credentials are valuable, they're important and they're part of the, you know, the growing and learning. But I think what you're, what you're alluding to is it's the action steps that really help to build that confidence, you know, so.
[00:18:08] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: You know. Yeah. And so I was wondering if you, if there was anything in the book that you.
That you feel changed the way you might even approach taking a risk.
[00:18:24] Speaker A: Well, one part of the book, I remember this, I pointed this one out too, like some of my favorite highlights in the book I always have to highlight my favorite quotes and stuff. Yeah. One part she talks about right here.
I know, right? I always have mine with me. In fact, it's so funny because I have this little, this little bag that I carry with my journal that has all these colored markers in it and my kids make fun of me and it has my highlighters and I'm like, no, I always have to be prepared. So when I find something, you know, I can remember it.
But anyways, in the book she talks about being authentic to yourself and all of that. But also in. She calls them kill the gnats. Nat which is our negative automatic thought which I immediately connected with. I'm like. Because my husband's even said to me before, he's like, we got to do. You're a badass. We got to do a lot of work up here. On the way you're talking about yourself. And I'm like, really? And you know, because we just. I just am not that personality, I guess. But she. Here's this quote I want to share from that part of it because it is. A lot of women I know feel the same way. Often women just seem to have the spotlight thing backward. We want to shine a bright light on our faults, insecurities and outlandish reasons. We will surely fail. But when it comes to taking credit or enjoying our triumphs, we step into the shadows, look askance at our accomplishments as though we've never seen them before.
We do need to develop a sense of our own well deserved value. And the act of doing this, of hearing ourselves recognize our compliments accomplishments, bolsters confidence right there.
And so that stood out to me because when she brings up furniture, she also goes out and think. They go out and they talk to high level women. That a woman that ran the monetary, International Monetary Fund and she had had thoughts like this or you know, the, the person that runs some of these women that run countries and you know, some of these high level university people and many of them, even though they're a military, like the highest military woman major or whatever, but, or general but she, they all had some of these similar thoughts. And that was a big takeaway that she, that they both put into the book is that you've got to stop that negative automatic, you know, thought process. And that's a big part of it is we're so hard on ourselves. So much quicker, I would say than men. Men can be hard on themselves. But then they just, you know, it's like when they get in a fight with the dude, they just punch him in the face and then move on. Right. It's over, you know, or, or they have that thought and they're like, oh, I'm not going to think that way. I'm just going to go this way because what's the point? What's the point in overthinking it? Right. And so it's interesting to, for me, it was helpful to see other really high level, successful women across you know, the country that had the same thoughts. And so it's really a practice.
And that's part of the action part is really practicing that mental part as well as just taking the risk and, you know, trying new things. But a big part is up here, no question.
[00:21:27] Speaker B: I, I used to call that, particularly when I was in, in on the sales side of the business. I used to call it the little self saboteur that drove around in the backseat of the car with me. Yeah. He would constantly tell me, there's no way you're going to get that, you know, that account or you're not going to be able to get through that, you know, on and on and on. And then, you know, as time went on, I learned to pull over and say, get out.
[00:21:49] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I love that I'm in cell. So, yeah, I have to remind myself, just get up, just call them. They're not going to be that scared. It's really not going to be that bad.
[00:22:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
So. Well, two things before we wrap up and I get to the bottom line with you. And one is, is there, there's so many things we could talk about, I think, in this book, but is there anything else that you really want to share with the audience before we wrap up about the, about the book?
[00:22:16] Speaker A: Well, I think that, like, for me it's come full circle. You know, being in the business as long as I have, I really wanted to start something and be a part of something that was meaningful and powerful as far as the emotional helping women realize how valued they really are. Because oftentimes we're so hard on ourselves. We have those NATs, you know, and yeah, we need. And it's hard for women to talk about themselves in our industry, especially like we tend to bring in the doers, you know, the checklist serves and they just put their head down and do it right. And there's power in sharing your story. There's power in saying, you know, that and, and I learned that through the journey of running her as well, because it wasn't necessarily my plan. My plan was to help bring communication and a Connection and a network and a mentorship, coaching, consulting type of atmosphere for women. And what has in turn happened is I've started to realize how, you know, and they've. And my board has said that to me, too. They're like, just be confident and go forward, you know, and that's something that's always been a struggle, I guess. It's interesting now that I say that out loud, that my very first woman mentor, when I moved to Colorado in 2005, I had little babies. I had no family that lived in Colorado. And, you know, I got this job at Equity Title, and she was a great mentor. And I remember so well whenever I did my annual reviews for, like, three years running, everything was like, excellent, excellent, excellent. The only thing to improve on was my confidence every single time. Every single time. And so I was like, why is that? Like, I feel like I'm confident. I feel like I'm pretty, you know, capable.
But for whatever reason, that was always the one thing that she said. If you can just go out with the confidence that you are pretty amazing and you can go and affect other women's lives that are just as amazing, you'll build something that's truly incredible, that you can be proud of and other women can be proud of being a part of as well. And so that's kind of my goal is to be able to do that for. For other women that truly, we need that in our industry. We need to. Because we go, go, go, go, go. And industry's so busy, and then when we go to conferences, it's so go, go, go, go, go. Right? And I think to be able to stop. Stop for a second and take a breath and just say, I did this, and you should. And women are like, you make me sound so good in my spotlight. And I'm all. I'm like, but it's because you are. You are amazing. You know, you just need to realize how much you've done. And so that's one part of the her that's been so fulfilling is to spotlight women and for them to see for themselves. Oh, my gosh, I'm. I'm making a difference. Because at the end of the day, I think that's what we all want, right? We all want to feel like our 25, 30 years in an industry isn't for nothing. It's, you know, we truly made a difference. We truly impacted other women in mentorship or coaching or whatever that may be in collaboration, and that's what we all want, right at the end of the day, to make it worthwhile.
[00:25:25] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. To feel fulfilled.
So, boy, I think that was the bottom line. But I've got to ask you one because that was awesome. I just have to ask you one other question for really for our audience. If someone listening is interested in learning more about her, how can they go about doing that?
[00:25:46] Speaker A: Oh, okay. Yeah, Absolutely. We're on all the social platforms as for the Title collective or for women of Title. And our website is www.hertitlecollective.com, and that's probably the best way to connect. And then there is a subscribe button where you can go in and get connected with me or anyone from our board. And we have all of our information on there, so.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: Awesome. Great.
Well, Susan, I could talk to you for hours.
[00:26:20] Speaker A: I know I could have fun talking about this. Right? I could learn so much from you and your long career, too. Well, it's not easy navigating right in.
[00:26:28] Speaker B: The spirit of what you're doing. Absolutely. Is why we're kindred spirits and came together. I think. So.
I just want to say thank you so much for spending this time with me. And I know our audience is going to enjoy this conversation and probably run out and get the book or listen to it just like I did.
[00:26:47] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
[00:26:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:49] Speaker A: Highly recommend it.
[00:26:50] Speaker B: Absolutely. Great. Great. Well, again, thank you so much. And to our audience, as always, we so appreciate your taking some time out of your day to listen and learn from us. And until we meet again, let's all continue to learn, grow and prosper. Thank you.
[00:27:07] Speaker A: Thank you, Ann.
